and charles schumer got wobbly, everyone ran away from it, they tried and tried and tried. let's say you try him in the u.s. the first day there's going to be a procedural hearing saying you cannot admit the things that you got out of my client when he was being tortured which is the hearing happening tomorrow. so what should they be doing with him. if you bring him into a civilian court and they say you tortureded ksm, the law says you've got to let him free. >> the law doesn't say that. it should in my view, if you torture somebody, they should be released. >> even khalid sheikh mohammed. >> he's not subject to this law. i'm saying what u.s. law should be if i were writing law. the point is it doesn't say that. the point is if someone is tortured, you can't use what you get under torture. they have a lot of things on ksm without having to use what they got during torture. >> so having conversations for ten years -- >> and they have got this all on tape. >> so the point is that khalid sheikh mohammed could be tried in a civilian court and a reasonable chance of conviction.